Episode 288 – Winning the Rent Game: Tips From Justin Pogue

Most renters accept the listed price — but what if that’s your biggest mistake?

In this episode of The Agent of Wealth Podcast, co-host John Williams is joined by Justin Pogue, founder of Rental Secrets, to uncover how renters can better understand landlord psychology — and use it to their advantage.

In this episode, you will learn:

• Why landlords are highly motivated to fill vacancies — and how that creates opportunity for renters.
• How leasing agents create urgency (and how to avoid falling into that trap).
• Why “market rent” isn’t as objective as it sounds — and how to find better comps.
• Practical negotiation strategies that can help renters save thousands over the life of a lease.
• And more!

Tune in to uncover how shifting your mindset — from tenant to informed negotiator — can completely change your rental experience and put real money back in your pocket.

Resources:

Rental Secrets | rentalsecrets.net | [email protected] | Bautis Financial: 8 Hillside Ave, Suite LL1 Montclair, New Jersey 07042 (862) 205-5000 | Schedule an Introductory Call

​​Disclosure: The transcript below has been edited for clarity and content. It is not a direct transcription of the full episode, which can be listened to above.

Welcome back to The Agent of Wealth Podcast, this is your co-host John Williams. 

Today, I am joined by a special guest, Justin Pogue. Justin is the founder of Rental Secrets, an author and real estate consultant based in Dallas, Texas. 

Justin’s book, Rental Secrets, pulls back the curtain on how landlords think – and why they make the decisions they do. Drawing on more than twenty years of property management experience, the book gives renters practical, market-based strategies they can use to negotiate more effectively with landlords by speaking their language.

In short, it’s about helping renters take back control of the rental process.

Today, we’ll talk about Justin’s book and explore some of the strategies renters can use to potentially save thousands by negotiating their rent and understanding how the rental market really works.

Justin, welcome to the show.

Thanks for having me. I’m glad to be here.

Yeah, I’m really excited to jump into this. As we were talking about before the show, this is a topic that has really been pushed to the forefront. Obviously, people have always rented, but now—especially with affordability challenges—more people are paying attention.

As you mentioned earlier, many people are on the sidelines right now. They may be waiting to sell a home, buy a home, or make a move due to interest rates or other factors. So I’m really excited to dive into this.

But before we do, I’d love to give the audience some perspective on your journey. Can you tell us a bit about how you got started in real estate and property management?

Yeah, absolutely. Real estate and property management were not my original plan. I had gone to graduate school to get my MBA, and my plan was to go into management consulting.

Unfortunately, I graduated right into the imploding dot-com bubble, which was the worst possible time to try to enter that industry. It got so bad that people who had already been hired—and had even moved and bought houses based on those new jobs—were sent rescission letters thanking them for their service and informing them that their services would no longer be needed.

So after that, I returned to California. My mother, who had been a real estate agent back in the ’80s, was interested in starting to invest in real estate. She suggested that we just go look at one property—what could it hurt?

That one decision turned into a 20-year career in property management and real estate.

We took a road trip from California down to Florida, looking at what’s called the “lands available” list. For anyone who isn’t familiar, these are properties where tax liens were auctioned by the county, but no one purchased them. So they end up on this list.

We toured neighborhoods where these properties were located and eventually found three properties in a couple of counties. We paid the back taxes, navigated the legal process, and gained ownership. Then we sold those properties to developers.

That’s how I got started.

After that, we continued investing in various locations and grew from zero units under management to 72 units—all of which we managed ourselves. We really jumped in feet first.

In fact, the first property we purchased was a 32-unit apartment complex. We moved into that complex, lived there, renovated units to bring them up to livable standards, and managed everything hands-on.

Was that one of the three original properties you looked at—the 32-unit complex?

It wasn’t the first one we looked at. We evaluated several properties before landing on that one, but it was the first one we actually purchased.

At the time, we were living in California, and the property was located in Mississippi. We knew that investing in California would require much more capital than we had, so we focused on more affordable markets.

Because we were looking so far from home, we wanted something large enough to justify relocating—since managing the property ourselves was part of the plan.

Now, I don’t necessarily recommend that everyone start real estate investing by diving in headfirst, relocating, and taking on renovations all at once. That was just the path we took.

Certainly jumping right in.

We’re going to talk a lot about your book today, Rental Secrets, but I’d love to hear how you were inspired to write it. What did that path look like?

That also came a bit out of the blue.

Around 2016, we turned our real estate portfolio over to a property management company, and I moved back to California. I started thinking about what I wanted to do next.

I decided to work for a property management company to see if there were any tips, tricks, or systems I could learn—since all of my experience had been self-taught.

But honestly, they didn’t have much to offer beyond more sophisticated tools. Real estate is fundamentally a relationship business. If you understand how to build and maintain relationships and work well with people, that’s really the heart of it.

After I left, I joined a group in California that helps people transition into their next careers. One of the people in that organization suggested that I write a book.

I didn’t really know what that would look like, so I went to Barnes & Noble and started browsing the real estate section. I saw books for mortgage brokers, property managers, real estate agents, and investors—basically everyone in the real estate ecosystem.

But there was nothing for renters.

And renters are bringing over half a trillion dollars into the market—essentially funding the entire ecosystem—yet there were no resources written specifically for them.

That’s where the idea for the book came from.

It’s an interesting perspective. It’s one of those things where, once you hear it, you think, “Of course—why wouldn’t there be a book for renters?”

So many people rent at some point in their lives, even if it’s just before buying a home. It just seems like an obvious gap once you recognize it.

Exactly. There’s a gap in financial literacy education. When people graduate from high school or college, a lot of these topics just aren’t covered.

As a result, you have college students signing up for credit cards with 25% interest rates because they think it’s “free money.” Meanwhile, the credit card companies understand that, ultimately, the parents are often the ones footing the bill.

It’s similar to how a young child thinks. When a parent says, “We don’t have money for that,” the child responds, “Just swipe the card—what’s the problem?”

Yeah, I get that from my kids too. I’ll ask, “Are you going to pay for it?” and they say, “No, Dad—just use your card.”

But shifting back to renters—what’s interesting is that most renters interact with landlords in a very transactional way. They pay rent, maybe request a repair here or there.

But you describe a much deeper mindset behind how landlords operate. Can you give us a glimpse into that way of thinking?

Absolutely.

When someone invests in property, they become a small business owner—and they inherit all the challenges that come with that. Those challenges include maintenance, marketing, communication, vendor management—it’s a wide range of responsibilities.

Real estate seminars often don’t prepare landlords for this. They focus on the “sexy” aspects—appreciation, tax benefits, passive income—but they don’t emphasize property management.

The reality is, they didn’t invest in a bond—they invested in a building.

So here’s the key point: when an apartment is vacant, the landlord isn’t just not making money—it’s worse than that.

Every day the unit sits empty, that lost income is gone forever. It’s not like selling a car—if I don’t sell it today, I can sell it tomorrow. But no one rents an apartment retroactively. No one says, “I’d like to rent that unit from last week.”

That doesn’t exist.

So this creates a strong bias toward action. Landlords want to fill vacancies as quickly as possible. There’s no middle ground—they’re either earning income or losing money.

That’s the nature of the business, and it’s where a lot of their decision-making starts.

And how does that translate to the renter’s experience—and why is it important for renters to understand that when negotiating?

Great question. Here’s how it typically plays out: you call a property and say you’re interested in renting. They’ll ask what you’re looking for—maybe a two-bedroom apartment.

Then they’ll ask follow-up questions: first or second floor? Near the pool? Near the laundry room? Courtyard view?

From your perspective as the renter, it seems like they’re helping you find the perfect fit.

But from the leasing agent’s perspective, they’re filtering through their available inventory—crossing off units that don’t match your criteria.

At the end of the conversation, they say, “Great—we have one apartment that fits your needs. How soon can you get here?”

Now suddenly, you’re thinking, “Only one? I better act fast.”

That creates a sense of urgency—and even fear of missing out.

This urgency stems from the landlord’s need to fill vacancies quickly, but it puts the renter in a weaker negotiating position. You’re less likely to negotiate because you don’t want to lose the opportunity.

On top of that, most renters approach the situation with a consumer mindset. You walk into a store, see a price, and pay it. No one negotiates with a cashier at Walmart over the price of tomatoes.

But renting is different.

This is one of the few situations where negotiation is not only appropriate—it’s expected. And renters often have far more leverage than they realize.

Understood. Yeah—and they create that sense of urgency.

You said something really interesting that I hadn’t thought about before, which is that “middleman” role. Obviously, what you’re saying about landlords makes sense—time is critical to their profitability, and keeping units occupied is essential.

But in many cases—and even in my own experience living in Manhattan—when you’re searching for a place, you’re not dealing directly with the landlord. You’re working with leasing agents.

So how is that sense of urgency created by the landlord and then translated to the leasing agent? And how does that play into the equation?

If they can successfully plant that sense of urgency in your mind, then the chances that a renter will actually negotiate are practically zero.

Well—what I’m getting at, and I’m sorry to cut you off—is more about the relationship between the landlord and the leasing agent. How does the landlord’s urgency get transferred to the agent?

The agent is usually paid as a percentage of the rents collected. Typically, there’s some kind of upfront fee that the leasing agent or property management company earns for finding a new renter. After that, they collect a percentage of the ongoing rent.

That percentage can vary. I’ve seen it as high as 15% and as low as 6%, depending on the agreement. But that’s generally the structure.

So the leasing agent or property management company is also incentivized to fill vacancies.

What’s interesting is that the incentives between the owner and the property management company are aligned—but not perfectly aligned.

For example, if I’m a leasing agent and I earn a larger commission for placing new tenants, I might have an incentive to create churn—to turn over tenants more frequently so I can collect that upfront fee.

But from the owner’s perspective, churn is undesirable. They don’t want the wear and tear. They don’t want a revolving door of tenants. They’d prefer long-term tenants who treat the property like a home and take care of it.

That makes a lot of sense. And it’s interesting because time seems like such a critical factor.

If a unit sits empty for two months, that’s two months of lost rent—and as you said earlier, that’s rent you’ll never recover.

So it’s interesting that, at least on the surface, the leasing agent doesn’t seem directly incentivized by time in the same way.

There is some connection. Going back to that percentage structure—if there’s no rent coming in for a given unit, the property management company isn’t collecting their percentage either.

And beyond that, they want to retain the client. If the property owner isn’t consistently collecting rent, they may decide to replace the management company with someone who can keep units occupied.

So there is definitely pressure there, even if it’s not always as obvious.

That makes a lot of sense. It’s a really interesting relationship.

And at the end of the day, if you’re running a business, the landlord can’t do everything themselves—they can’t take every call or manage every detail—so that middle layer is necessary.

Now that we have a better understanding of the landlord-renter relationship and the mechanics behind it, I’d love to dive deeper into some practical strategies.

What are some of the most effective ways renters can approach rent reduction and negotiation?

Great question. When people go to look at a property, they often hear the phrase, “Our rents are competitive with the market.” It sounds great—like all the research has been done and you’re getting the best possible deal.

But in reality, it’s both true and misleading.

What they mean is this: they take a map, place a pin where their property is, draw about a one-mile radius, and evaluate competing properties within that circle. Then they price accordingly.

But that has nothing to do with you as a renter. They haven’t met you. They don’t know your preferences. They’re basing decisions on a generic “marketing avatar”—someone with 2.5 kids and 1.5 cars—which isn’t a real person.

From your perspective, what matters is different. You’re looking for a place with certain amenities, within about a 30-minute commute to your job—whether that’s north, south, east, or west.

So there are competing properties outside of that one-mile radius that they’re not even considering—but you should be.

When you’re negotiating, bring information about those alternatives. Show them that you have real options—properties that meet your needs and may be priced more competitively.

This does two things:
First, it shows you’re serious and informed—you’ve done your homework.
Second, it creates urgency on their side, because now they risk losing you to a real alternative.

You’re essentially flipping the script and creating that same sense of urgency—what we’d call FOMO, or fear of missing out—on them.

Yeah, I can feel that shift just hearing you describe it.

At the beginning, you mentioned that leasing conversation—“We only have one unit available. How soon can you get here?” That creates urgency for the renter.

But when you go in knowing you have options, you naturally feel more calm, confident, and collected. And that changes the dynamic.

Because the reality is, most renters already feel urgency before they even start looking. Maybe they have to move out of their current place, and there’s a ticking clock.

There’s stress involved—coordinating a move, packing, logistics—and sometimes you just want to check the box and lock something in.

So it’s already a high-pressure situation.

It is. And there’s also something happening behind the scenes that renters don’t see.

Leasing teams are having regular meetings where they review vacant units—how long they’ve been vacant, what’s being done to fill them, and so on.

If an apartment has been sitting empty for a while and you come in and sign a lease, that leasing agent becomes a hero in that meeting. Suddenly, that problem unit is no longer an issue.

So that dynamic is always at play in the background.

Also, going back to urgency—most renters don’t give themselves enough time during the search process.

They’ll say, “Okay, I’m moving to a new city. Let’s go down on Saturday,” and then schedule a whirlwind tour of 8–10 properties in a single day.

Then they make a decision based on that.

But what they’re overlooking is that they’re not just renting an apartment—they’re renting an experience.

They’re renting the community and the surrounding neighborhood.

So it’s important to spend time in that area. Ask yourself:

• Do I actually want to live here?
• Is the park they mentioned somewhere I’d feel comfortable letting my kids play?
• Is the pool really available, or is it taken over on weekends?
• Is street parking truly accessible—or is it four blocks away?

These are things you won’t discover on a rushed tour. You only find out after you’ve already signed the lease.

Right—it’s not just about rent. There are other factors and experiences involved.

Exactly. And another thing those whirlwind tours don’t allow time for is talking to potential neighbors.

Ask them about their experience. Is management responsive? Do they actually fix things when they say they will? What challenges have they faced?

Your future neighbors have no stake in whether you rent there or not—they’ve already signed their lease. That makes them a valuable, unbiased source of information that many renters overlook.

That makes a lot of sense.

Before we wrap up, is there anything else you’d want to leave listeners with—any key takeaway we haven’t covered?

Yes. Renters and landlords are two sides of the same coin—they need each other.

Renters aren’t building the properties they live in, and many landlords are investing in real estate as part of their retirement plan. In a sense, renters are living inside someone else’s retirement investment.

Because of that, the relationship between the two needs to be strong.

Unfortunately, many renters view landlords as simply trying to extract as much rent as possible. And while landlords do want a return—they chose real estate as an investment—it’s often more important to them that the return is consistent, rather than maximized at all costs.

So shifting your mindset—from being just a consumer to being a partner in a landlord-renter relationship—can make a big difference.

That shift allows renters to apply these strategies more effectively and ultimately save money.

That’s great. Honestly, I feel like we could continue this conversation for another hour.

But we’ll leave more for listeners to explore in your book. Speaking of which, how can listeners stay in touch with you and find your work?

Absolutely. The book is called Rental Secrets. You can find it on Amazon and other major outlets. The website is rentalsecrets.net, where you can contact me directly or reach me at [email protected]. We also post on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn under the handle “Rental Secrets.”

Great. We’ll link to that in the resources section of the show notes. Thanks again, Justin. And thank you to everyone who tuned into today’s episode. Don’t forget to follow The Agent of Wealth on the platform you listen from and leave us a review of the show. We are currently accepting new clients, if you’d like to schedule a 1-on-1 consultation with our advisors, please do so below.

Bautis Financial LLC is a registered investment advisor. Information presented is for educational purposes only and does not intend to make an offer or solicitation for the sale or purchase of any specific securities, investments, or investment strategies. Investments involve risk and unless otherwise stated, are not guaranteed. Be sure to first consult with a qualified financial advisor and/or tax professional before implementing any strategy discussed herein. Past performance is not indicative of future performance.